Genderswap

[miss_morland]

I normally don't pay much attention to genderswap (nothing against it, just not a trope that grabs me), but it occurred to me that it might be interesting to discuss what various Les Mis characters would be like if genderswapped -- they are all shaped by their circumstances, but how would different circumstances (due to different gender roles) affect them? Would they still be recognisable as their canon selves?

For instance, 63!Valjean would not have been sent to a bagne. Would she end up spending 19 years in prison? Would she be able to build a Madeleine-like life for herself with the aid of the Bishop's silver? (I'm not up on the French rules for unmarried women owning property during this period.) 63!Fantine is hard for me to imagine to begin with, because Fantine's storyline is so specifically about the unfair way society treats unmarried women -- though I think I could believe in a story about 63!Fantine being a poor youth taking care of his little sister and being forced to become a male prostitute, if done well.

As for 63!Javert, I can see her turning into a typical stern spinster -- the sort who keeps a sharp eye on troublemakers and delinquents in her neighbourhood -- earning her daily bread in some low-paying but honest job. I'm not sure it would occur to her that a woman could join the police, because Javert is so preoccupied with following the norms of "respectable society"; the thought of a woman passing as a man and doing a man's work would probably shock her, though I think it's definitely an interesting scenario.

These are just some examples, though I'd love to see others. Also, these are just some hasty thoughts; feel free to disagree or elaborate!

Comments

[melannen]

I think you're right, that the Javert/Valjean/Fantine generation is really hard to genderswap without a lot of handwaving or fundamentally changing their narrative - they all have histories that are very directly linked to gendered roles.

I think it would be really interesting to see a 63!Valjean whose history was exactly the same right up to not getting sent to the bagne - but I don't know enough about women in the justice system of the period to know how it would change, after that.

Javert is even harder, because Javert's identity is so linked to both his job, and the idea of everyone filling proper roles. He's got that binary choice he set up for himself between 'criminal' and 'cop' that defines his whole life, and a woman simply wouldn't have *had* that choice. I almost feel like 63!Javert would structure her choice as remaining a vagabond or becoming a 'respectable' wife - and given those choices, would pick vagabond. (The possibly of a Javert who had chosen to give up the rules of 'respectable society' then working for the law - either while crossdressed or not - is fascinating, but she would still be a VERY DIFFERENT Javert than the one we see in canon.)

...mind you, I can also see a possibility of 63!Javert deciding her only option other than outlaw was 'nun'...

For Fantine, I kind of feel like you'd have to have him get seduced by rich 63!Tholomyes who likes a bit of rough trade, knock her up, and then have Tholomyes denounce him to wiggle out of responsibility for the pregnancy - maybe by claiming Fantine had raped her? That... isn't really a backstory I'd be interested in telling (at least without AUing things such that rape culture was altogether different). Maybe instead of false rape accusations, Tholomyes' family gets him convicted on some other kind of false charges, just to get him out of the way and thoroughly silenced and make it easier to hush the whole thing up. It would make for a fascinating 63!Fantine, I think, with class issues foregrounded over gender issues - ex-con or even prison escapee Fantine, desperately trying to find a child he has never met, who was probably given away as an orphan as soon as he was born.... and going about it in very different ways than original Valjean did. (This would also make an interesting contrast in an all-63 universe, depending on how your Valjean turned out....)

For Amis generation I honestly think you'd have to change less - getting the girl all to Paris and [relative] independence is harder, I think - they'd have to fight harder for all of it - but there were plenty of working-class and middle-class politically active young women hanging around in Paris in the 1830s, and many of them even fought in the rebellions. (trying to come up with roles for 63!Amis is fun, but I think doesn't fundamentally change any of them - Feuilly still works hard for the money, just makes less of it for the same work; the other probably attend approximately the same number of lectures at the University (that is: not very many), just aren't actually enrolled and don't have any hope of sliding into a respectable profession as a result.

Joly and Bossuet and Bahorel and Jehan probably support themselves by being somebody's mistress. 63!Grantaire, let's be honest, probably outright has sex for money, because why not..?

The focuse political concerns would be different, but I don't think their political passion would be.

(I really just want the Amis as a polyamorous radfem socialist commune, let's be honest, although while at least vaguely historically plausible I think that's further from canon than you'd actually *have* to take them.)

[miss_morland]

Great thoughts, thank you!

He's got that binary choice he set up for himself between 'criminal' and 'cop' that defines his whole life, and a woman simply wouldn't have *had* that choice.

*nods* Though I think the vagabond vs nun choice is an interesting possibility, especially since Javert is described as almost monk-like -- austere, self-abnegating -- in his devotion to his job. (Out of curiosity, why do you think 63!Javert would choose "vagabond" over "respectable wife"?)

It would make for a fascinating 63!Fantine, I think, with class issues foregrounded over gender issues - ex-con or even prison escapee Fantine, desperately trying to find a child he has never met, who was probably given away as an orphan as soon as he was born.... and going about it in very different ways than original Valjean did.

This is definitely a scenario I'd find interesting too, though I wonder how the gender issues of Fantine's storyline would be preserved in an all 63!universe, if it's possible at all.

I agree that the Amis are easier to imagine genderswapped, also if some of them were to dress and pass as men for whatever reason -- they are used to questioning and challenging norms and mores; pushing the boundaries of gender roles would seem more natural to them.

[genarti]

What about Marius and Cosette, do you think?

63!Marius is still raised alone by her grandfather (or grandmother, if we're 63ing everybody?), still an orphan, and presumably you could keep the whole father who fought for Napoleon issues too. But what happens when she rebels? She doesn't have the social freedom to be a law student and then lawyer. Does she run away from home and become a grisette, proudly refusing to become anyone's mistress but barely scraping by with her wages and the help of a friend? Does she stay in her grandfather's house, estranged under the same roof? I lean towards the former, because Marius has a lot of stubborn pride. In which case 63!Marius is really in some ways a Fantine with better luck, and better taste.

63!Cosette... well, one question here is whether Valjean is 63ed too or not. Does Cosette grow up in a monastery or a convent? Either way, is he as isolated as canon Cosette is? It's not impossible, but it's even more unusual, especially given Cosette's free spirit. And he'd be expected to get a profession at some point -- or to take vows, but in canon Valjean wants Cosette to experience the world too (even if he wants to keep that world pretty limited), and for a young man that means more than just living in a couple of houses with nice gardens and giving alms. Does 63!Cosette go to school, or even join the Amis himself?

[carmarthen]

Man, I am sad I missed this post!

...mind you, I can also see a possibility of 63!Javert deciding her only option other than outlaw was 'nun'...

+1

I have found pretty much all the 63!JVJ I've seen dissatisfying on a character level so far because their roles in canon are so tied to gender--I feel like if you want to genderswap and keep those roles, it takes some serious Alternate France worldbuilding, and if you don't want to do that, their roles would look very different.

I hadn't thought of 'nun' for Javert, though, which kind of makes me want to attempt the genderswapped story I was poking at again. Hmmmm. What would nun!Javert think of fallenwoman!Valjean? Or what would she think she was supposed to think according to the moral authority of the Church? I suppose it might depend very much on the attitudes of the Mother Superior, whether she was more of a Myriel or more of a hellfire and brimstone sort...

(holy crap I think I've found a 63 JVJ femslash scenario that actually interests me O_o)

[melannen]

Oh, gosh, now you've got *me* thinking about this again. :P

I think nun!Javert would be very different depending on whether she was a cloistered nun (like the sisters at the Petit-Picpus) or a nun who lived in the world (like Simplice or Perpetue). I don't actually know enough about different kinds of nuns in period to go into any detail about which, except that I now desperately wan a scenario where Simplice is the Inspector and Javert runs the hospital....

(and Fantine is ex-con mayor and Valjean is fallen woman??? maybe.... Valjean who can't get even seasonal work as a pruner to support her sister's family, and turns to prostitution out of generalized anger and despair?)

[carmarthen]

Yessssssss this would be amazing (woah, Inspector Simplice! THAT would shake things up liek woah).

I also don't know enough about nuns in period. I wonder if one could just cheat and crib from Hugo, haha.

Cosette in this verse might actually be Valjean's son, yes?

[melannen]

Maybe? I don't know. I feel like there would be a tricky line to walk with swapping everything around while still keeping the characters enough themselves to be worth it.

(I really want Inspector Simplice now. That would be AMAZING. really you could leave the rest as-is and just swap those two, and see what happened....)

I still lean toward Cosette being Fantine's son via an upper-class woman who got herself in trouble and then dumped him... I feel like Valjean's relationship with sexuality is different enough from Fantine's that a 63!Valjean probably wouldn't have become anyone's mistress - or if so, would have gone into it for different reasons and not fallen for Tholomyes' particular brand of assholery? But 63!Valjean with a kid could work - especially if she'd been working the streets instead of in prison....

[genarti]

This is fascinating! I've seen a couple of trans!Enjolras fics, but not much Rule 63ing, especially of other characters. And not ones that bring it back to basics and really look at how their stories would be different. Which they really would be, especially for the older generation.